Conducted by Matthew Andrews
Prepared by Maggie Goodlander and Rebeca Yergin

Rohan Gunaratna, the Head of International Centre for Political Violence and Terrorism Research (ICPVTR), Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies (IDSS), Singapore, is an expert on Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations in Asia. His acclaimed books include Inside Al-Qaeda: The Global Network of Terror, Terrorism in the Asia-Pacific: Threat and Response and The Changing Face of Terrorism.

In the aftermath of Benazir Bhutto’s assassination in Pakistan and continued causalities in Iraq, the conflicts that draw less international attention lose their salience in the eyes of government and media officials. Among them is the struggle between the Han Chinese and the Turkic-Muslim Uighurs of Western China’s Xinjiang province, a conflict that challenges the international community’s ability to define and counter the threat of global terrorism.

While the Uighurs only constitute eight and a half million out of China’s population of over 1.3 billion people—a number that pales in comparison to the 1.2 billion Han Chinese inhabiting the country—the Uighurs do make up the majority in Xinjiang. This crucial province contains 16% of China’s landmass, large oil, and natural gas reserves, in addition to 80% of the reserves of coal, gold, jade, and precious metals.

Although competition for Xinjiang’s valuable resources is potentially one of the great sources for conflict in the region, the problem transcends natural resources.

The Chinese government’s restrictive religious policies in Xinjiang and tensions between groups in the province add to the problem. In response to grievances against the Chinese government, a minority of Uighurs formed the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), dedicated to secession from China and to the formation of an independent Islamic state. Since the 1990’s, it has engaged in a series of violent incidents inside China to achieve its goal of nationhood. After September 11th, the United States, in conjunction with the United Nations, designated the ETIM as a terrorist organization, although the issue remains contentious.

On one side, Uighur groups and opponents of Chinese policy claim that the Chinese government conflates Uighur movements seeking religious rights with jihadist terrorism; they argue that Islam is the only similarity between Uighurs and radical jihadists. On the other side of the debate are those who claim that Uighur movements, specifically the ETIM, are developing closer links with Al-Qaeda in hopes of linking struggles in Xinjiang with global jihadist movements. In this interview, Dr. Gunaratna sides with the latter assessment; Gunaratna argues that the Chinese government and the international community must take definite action against what he deems the growth of terrorism in Western China.

What is the history of Uighur groups in China? How were they incorporated into the Chinese state?

The Uighurs are a part of the People’s Republic of China. But certainly, they are in a distinct geographic region, and the Han Chinese have established a very significant presence in Xinjiang where most of the Uighurs live. Both the Han and the Uighur and many other ethnic minorities live in peace there. They have always been a part of China in modern times. In history, they have been distinct and separated. They became incorporated because they largely settled in territory adjacent to the Han population. Over the 2,000 years, the Uighurs and the Han Chinese have had a close relationship. For example, one of the imperial concubines was a Uighur woman. The relationship was not just among commoners but among the imperial court as well.

What is the motivating force behind Uighur separatism?

Ethnic and religious conflicts are the most dominant forms of conflict. China is no exception. A minority of the Uighurs are rebelling and want to create an independent Uighur state, but getting that support is difficult because they are not in the majority. Some of the leaders have moved to Pakistan and have linked up with Al-Qaeda to establish their own training camps. During the Taliban regime there was a Uighur village living under the auspices of the regime. Uighur leaders want to have power. There are more than 100 conflicts around the world that are linked to ethnic, religious, cultural, and linguistic rights,and territories. For example, in Sri Lanka the Tamil Eelam are fighting for independence against the state. The Sikhs are fighting for an independent Sikh state in Kashmir. The Kashimiris are fighting for independence and reunification with Pakistan. In Spain there is fighting for independence from the home country. In Northern Ireland it’s happening. In Turkey, the Kurds are fighting for an independent state. It’s a global phenomenon where religious minorities fight for independence.

How has the Chinese government (CPP) responded to Uighur separatist movements? How do you evaluate the outcome of the CPP’s responses?

The Chinese have responded very well in that they have fought and taken up arms, in addition to economic and political incentives that have made it difficult for terrorist activities spread. The Chinese have long fought terrorism in Xinjiang. After 9/11 the United States realized that terrorism is a much greater threat than they thought and developed a more global response. Certainly the Chinese have lobbied very hard that there is a terrorist problem in China, and the Americans have designated the ETIM as a terrorist group in Xinjiang with ties to Al-Qaeda.

What is the history of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement?

The East Turkestan Islamic Movement started in the 1980’s, but only by the early 1990’s it was very well established, particularly outside China in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan. The movement has a very big political presence in Germany and also a modest political presence in Washington as a political lobbying group. Of course, the ETIM has since been developed into a very significant organization that poses a security threat.

President Bush signed an Executive Order in 2002 that added the East Turkestan Islamic Movement to the State Department’s Foreign Terrorist Organization list. How does the organization still maintain a presence in Washington?

There are many terrorist groups that are on the watch list that are maintaining a political presence in Washington, D.C. For example, the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam are operating through the cover of political organizations in Washington, New York, New Jersey, California, and other states. Similarly, the PKK, the Kurdish Workers Party, is very active within the United States. So there are many terrorist groups that are having either internet or political presence in the United States.

Is there a link between Uighur radical groups and global jihadi movements like Al-Qaeda?

We have seen that Al-Qaeda and the East Turkestan Islamic Movement have released a number of statements and videos where ETIM is training in Al-Qaeda camps with their instructors. Hasan Mahsum, the leader of ETIM, was killed in South Waziristan—the area that Al-Qaeda was operating in 2003—by the Pakistani forces. There have been a number of ETIM members arrested in Pakistan and Afghanistan. They are working very close with Al-Qaeda. Abu Zabeda, the operations chief for Al-Qaeda, met with Uighur radical groups entering Pakistan. The relationship between the two is very strong.

What threat does continued Uighur radicalization pose for the Chinese government?

It poses a very significant threat. We have seen that when the East Turkestan Islamic Movement trains in Al-Qaeda camps it becomes very much like Al-Qaeda. Certainly, the Al-Qaeda spirit and ideology would be represented and manifested operationally in China in the coming years. We have seen the more recent training conducted in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan that training conducted includes suicide bombing. It is very likely that ETIM members will conduct suicide attacks in China in the future.

Does Uighur radicalism pose a threat to the United States?

The East Turkestan Islamic Movement would be able to attack U.S. targets inside of China, but most likely, it won’t attack them in the near future. There is a very strong lobbying group in Washington, D.C. that would lose credibility. But, certainly, the ETIM doesn’t like China or the United States.

A recent report by Human Rights Watch argued that the Chinese government represses a broad spectrum of Uighur religious practices, ranging from the types of Quran that can be used to what imams may preach. Uighur groups often speak out against Chinese policies that they believe constitute human rights violations. How do you evaluate these claims, and what, if anything, can be done to reform China’s policies towards Uighur groups?

I think that the Chinese are doing all the right things that the Americans are not doing. They must regulate the imams, have proper schools for them. They monitor them because there are some imams that preach Hitler. There are some Qurans that have been issued by the Saudis to attack infidels. I think that Human Rights Watch has no understanding of security and that the United States should learn a lot from China.

Uighur groups are present among the many terrorist organizations that find safe havens in the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan. How should China respond to these cells within Pakistan? What role should the U.S. play?

Chinese have a very strong and very close cooperation with Pakistan. American and Pakistani relationships have gone up and down with the political currents. The Pakistanis have been very distrustful of the Americans because, for example, during the Soviet Era the Americans supported Pakistan very closely. But, after the Soviet period, we saw that America decided it wanted to have an embargo against the Pakistanis. After 9/11 the United States again very closely supported Pakistan. In the case of China and Pakistan they have had a very good relationship regardless of the political currents. Their relationship is very strong. I think the Chinese should continue to work with the Pakistanis to fight extremism and terrorism in the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan.

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